Jen's Thorough-blog

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Friday, June 01, 2007

WELCOME TO JUNE

Good views from Cangamble and others yesterday when discussing racing, its future and Fort Erie. The ideas are good ones, the discussion makes sense and hopefully Woodbine and other tracks will take note. The bettors want to stay, tracks NEED to the bettors to stay (there would not be racing otherwise) and they need to find ways to make them stay.

LEO'S BACK

Last year's champion 2-year-old colt LEONNATUS ANTEAS popped up in the entries against older horses in allowance company on Sunday - Plate Trial day - and there is a chance the colt could still make the Queen's Plate.
Some mystery has surrounded this super colt - undefeated and brilliant and beautiful -but trainer Kevin Attard is one of the game's budding stars and has done some good things with layoff horses. This would be quite a feat if he could get somewhere on Plate day with Leo.
The barn's other Plate contender, Alezzandro, is in the Trial.
More on the Trial as we get closer to Sunday.

TGIF

A pair of Ralph Biamonte trained 2yo fillies should rule the 3rd race at Woodbine today for $50,000 claiming. R L'S LUCKY LADY is by top-notch 2yo debut sire Successful Appeal and CHARLESTON DOLLY is by Suave Prospect.

Maiden allowance colts (3 and up) are scheduled to be on the grass (or more likely the Polytrack after yesterday's rain) in race 5. Interesting entrants include JACK N HANK (by Johannesburg) who has made a habit of terrorizing the people who work around him; 5yo horse GRAND PRESIDIUM, who raced once and that was June 2 - 2005!; WOODCRAFTER, a full brother to Queen's Plate winner Woodcarver; and THE GREAT CARUSO, who has an amazing grass pedigree and was odds-on to win his debut in April but he was 4th.
What could be most interesting is if SONG SHAN draws in for Stronach Stables. The colt is a Queen's Plate eligible and a Golden Missile 1/2 brother to AWESOME AGAIN and MACHO UNO.

The HIGHLANDER prep is also today but it could come off the grass. All the better for odds-on STRADIVINSKY, who ran a 110 Beyer Figure when he won the Jacques Carter in April.

LABATT WOODBINE OAKS

The draw for the Oaks, the most important race for Canadian-bred fillies, takes place in 6 days and for the first time, the draw will not be held on Woodbine property. WEGZ Stadium bar will be the sight of the post position draw and luncheon.
A field of 10 to 12 is taking shape:
BELLEPLAINE - Eugene Melnyk, Todd Pletcher pair of 75 Beyers in last 2 starts
CHRISTIES TREASURE - Pletcher, only started on grass
DANCE TO MY TUNE - 7th beaten 16 in Selene
LOVE YOU CRAZY - closing 2nd in latest at 7 furlongs
PALACE PIER - on the fence
QUIET JUNGLE - Sam-Son filly with 77 Beyer
SASKAWEA - 84 and 81 in last 2 starts, very strong
SEALY HILL - Melnyk, Mark Casse - 12th in Ky. Oaks
STREET SOUNDS - graded SW in US with 94 and 83 in last 2 starts
SUVA - from B.C. with 57 and 70 Beyers in last 2
FUHRLEEN - Maiden, full sister to Wando

Curious promotion of the race in papers focuses on jockey Chantal Sutherland and 'Looking for Canada's Finest Fillies? Ugh.

ELSEWHERE

KELVINGTON is back in for $50,000 claiming at Churchill Downs after a win at the non-winners of 1 'other than level at 1 1/2 miles on grass on May 10. The Ontario-bred is by Theatrical-My Sweet Country out of Bold Ruckus. He ran an 89 Beyer Figure in that win.
Interesting entrant in that same race - race 5 at Churchill - is 12-year-old Gretchen's Star, owned and trained by Ron Isbell Jr. The Mr. Leader gelding has raced only 39 times in his career and he's won 10 times. He won last year at Ellis Park for $30,000 claiming. Love those old horses!

18 Comments:

At 7:17 AM, Anonymous said…

Racetracks NEED "the bettors" to stay but they also need some new blood and that is just not happening.

Lets start here. This is an industry that publishes a newspaper-the racing form- everyday that 90% of people have no idea how to read.

these racetracks have to make betting on the races a lot less intimidating for new people to grasp.
At 8:43 AM, Anonymous said…

If racetracks "need" bettors to stay, they should start by implementing wagering rules that discourage manipulation. Multiple entries, trained by the same trainer, should be coupled for betting puposes. Many years ago, the regulators did not allow such entries to be uncoupled but due to heavy pressure from WEG,(formerly Ontario Jockey Club) who wanted to increase betting handle AT ANY COST, the regulators agreed. Thus in the last few years, there have been several fiascos, which have detracted from the honesty of the game.

And once honesty suffers, well who wants to play?

Additionally, currently, some previously obscure trainers at WO are generating huge win%'s. Why? And is WEG or the ORC policing or questioning any of these results. Given the recent Harness Racing fiascos, the ORC seems incapable and incompetent of any action. On its website, the ORC likes to announce staff promotions and appointments, but to me it appears a thorough housecleaning of all ORC staff is in order.
At 9:03 AM, Anonymous said…

As we learned from the Harness side....

why test for anything...Tests are developed to detect certain drugs. Test works and detects said drugs..

Then all the apologists come out and say "these trainers would never knowingly do something like this" The tests are flawed-keeping in mind the whole time that the test detected exactly what it was designed to do- and it gets swept under the rug.

no wonder no one has any confidence in this game anymore.
At 9:33 AM, Anonymous said…

Anon 9:03, thank you, for a great comment!

I am proposing the phrase, "why test for anything", be used by the ORC and by WEG, as their official corporate motto. Only then will bettors realize how protected they really are!!
At 11:29 AM, Anonymous said…

As a racing fan in my 20s I can tell you that WEG has it right with a project like Woodbine Live ( If that ever gets built). Racing Can't Realistically expect to be the main event anymore. It has to be part of a larger entertainment complex.

The notion that young bettors are intimidated by a racing forum is preposterous. Six year olds routinely play card or video games more complicated than anything on the pages of the DRF. The problem is, you have to give them a reason to care.

Which is why I always argue that the single biggest problem facing racing is the down time between races. Obviously the time is needed for logistical purposes but most younger fans don't want to sit around for 15-20 minutes just waiting for two minutes of excitement. The younger generations expect instant gratification. If after every two minutes of hockey there was a 15 minute pause in the action, that sport would also be knocking on death's door. Now all of us veteran fans use the time to study the horses in the paddock but most sports fans probably would agree with Jim Rome when he describes the saddling ring/ walking ring activities as “ animals walking around in circles.” I don't think most young mainstream fans want to see that. So the key is giving the younger fans something to do/see between races. That means bringing in the UMM girls ( as much as it abhors some), that means bringing in interactive video games.

There are a million things tracks could do to keep younger patrons entertained between races. The problem is of course, many of the tactics used to bring in younger fans also keep away hardboots. So something has to give? Make tracks part of larger entertainment complexes, build areas for the old timers and build areas for younger fans. People have always gambled and they always will, young people are no exception, the key is finding ways to compete for their business in an ever expanding and competitive gaming marketplace....
At 2:26 PM, Anonymous said…

Anon 11:29 AM, you can always bet on races at other tracks if you need the action that much.
However, the biggest problem is that younger people get way more bang from the buck out of hold em poker. How long will 100 bucks last you playing online poker versus betting on horses on average?
The reason is that takeout isn't great for online poker and blackjack, etc. Even Betfair is a way better alternative (you only pay 2-4% if you win to the house) than donating to WEG with their ridiculous takeouts.

Oh, I'm sure the WEG people won't like the fact I brought up Betfair, but that is too bad. Either try to compete or keep ripping off the players and whining afterwards. The players aren't that stupid anymore, and you can't attract new ones.
At 3:16 PM, Anonymous said…

Cangamble- The younger generations have largely passed on simulcasting. When we go to the track, we don't want to sit in a teletheatre and bet on something we're watching on a screen, we want to bet on live action. If we're not betting on live action, we want to be entertained between races.

I respectfully disagree when it comes to poker and take out rates. I think life long track vets such as yourself are concerned with takeout rates, most under 30 race attendees either A) Don't know the take out rates or B) Don't care. They're at the track to have a good time and take out rates aren't really on their radar screen. Thats why they love poker so much, there's constant action as you're either personally in a hand or after you've folded, you're watching a high stakes hand. You don't take a 15 minute break to clean the table after each hand, its constant live action and its entertaining. If you don't believe me, next time you're at the track, randomly poll 30 people who look to be in their 20s, I guarantee you 20 don't know the take out rates. 2 or 3 percent on the takeout doesn't concern them, what concerns them is that they're not sitting around bored out of their mind waiting for the next race to come along.

Look their was a reason I was excited about Woodbine Live. I am a diehard fan/ gambler, I go to Woodbine whenever time permits. Its pretty hard finding university friends to go along with me. If Woodbine Live ever opened, I'd be taking a carload of people every time and I promise you, they'd be stopping to gamble between shopping or a show and trust me, they wouldn't care about take out rates.

A deep concern about take out rates is something that develops in someone after they've already become a hooked racing fan/ gambler, usually later in life. If you can't keep them at the track long enough to hook them, lowing take out rates won't do anything to attract new fans. You want new fans? Find new ways to entertain people between races, its really that simple.
At 3:58 PM, Anonymous said…

I was concerned about takeout rates when I was in my teens.
Someone needs an unlimited bankroll not to worry about these things. The reason you can't find friends to go with is because horse racing is a losing proposition for even the most knowledgeable handicapper. If you flashed a wad of cash consistently at your friends because you win a lot at Woodbine, friends to go to the track with would be easy.
I don't buy into young gamblers caring about whether they are betting on a live product or not. I'm sure that has something to do with it, but what is the difference in betting at home Churchill or Belmont or Woodbine while watching TRN (even at a teletheatre or live at the track) versus playing poker on line.
On TRN almost all the time 5 tracks are going and you can bet on a race that goes every 4 to 6 minutes.

It is all about winners. Consistant winners are the best advertisement a track has, and a racetrack would be dishonest in saying they have any today other than someone who hauls in a 200k pick 7.
At 5:25 PM, Anonymous said…

If people are waiting for "Woodbine Live" to save this industry, i think they are going to be disappointed.

When the slots first went in all over Ontario the common refrain was..

"if we just get people into the plant, we can introduce them to racing"

well as we all know now some 7 or 8 years later that this really isn't true. yes, the slots have brought more people out to the track but very few ever venture upstairs for the racing.

"Woodbine Live" will be the same. People will shop, eat, party etc...but very few will actually go to the races.

I don't see any merit at all in things like "entertainment complexes" or Umm girls and video games...these are just frills. Promoting everything and anything but racing to get people into the track is not something that will lead to sucess longterm. Unless racing in general finds a way to get people interested in RACING...it is a lost cause.

I hate to say it, because i love this game as much as anyone but time has just passed it by.
At 6:59 PM, Anonymous said…

I think the peoople who are talking about take out rates and the people who are Woodbine Live skeptics simply are missing the point.

Horse Racing is dieing a slow and painful death. Lowing take out rates by a few percent won't save racing and hardboots who detest all the bells and whistles of modern race tracks also won't save the sport. Tracks have to become part of a broader entertainment package or they're going to die with the 'children' of Lester Pearson. My parent's generation of race fans hate hearing that. They want lower take out rates, food vouchers and a meat and potatoes racing experience similar to the one they got when they where children. Thats fine and dandy but that attitude is going to kill racing faster than Clyde Wells killed Meech Lake. If someone can't see the difference between Woodbine Live and Slot machines, well then, I really don't know where to begin, lol. Slots and Woodbine Live are two different things. Slots attract the World War Two generation, Woodbine Live will attract 20 something year olds. Woodbine Live will provide racing with exposure to a generation that otherwise ignores racing. Slots attract people who long ago made up their minds on racing. Woodbine Live is visionary and the sort of thing that will save racing. Then again, what do I know, I am only a member of the target demographic tracks are looking to attract. David Wilmot gets it, now lets see him get the thing built.
At 7:20 PM, Anonymous said…

David Wilmot "get's it"

LOL!!!!
At 7:24 PM, Anonymous said…

I would respectfully add that...

If you are not concerned or could care less about lowering the takeout rates. I would say you are not "the demographic" that will save racing.

If takeout doesn't effect you, you aren't betting enough to matter or you really like losing.
At 7:33 PM, Anonymous said…

I would have to ask, why is racing attendance on the increase in somewhere like the UK, where it costs minimum of around $17 to get in, yet here it's free and they struggle.

There is just as much competition for the public pockets as here, but whatever it is, it works.

I bet very little here, mainly because I don't know what price I'm going to actually get and I find it hard enough at times to find a winner, let alone the first two.

There was a mention of Betfair and I think that is relevant. Over there, the punter has so many choices on how to bet. They can bet the same as here with a Pool, they can hunt for the ever changing prices at the track, or do the same at a betting office or home, or use the Exchanges. Once you have placed a bet at 6/1, that price is yours, regardless of what happens to the price after. I find that attractive.

The racing can be pretty boring at times here, it totally lacks variety. Early on we have whole cards of 5f races and through much of the season, most of the races are a mile and a sixteenth and under. What I can't understand with this distance thing, is why so many races are put up at this distance and under, yet almost all of our premier races are over that!!! Our longest race in the season over 14f says it all.

Many punters prefer turf races, yet WEG do their utmost to keep races off the turf and now that we have Polytrack, I fully expect to see more taken off. Is there no such thing as turf management here?

I like to see horses parade in the outside paddock and unless the weather is bad, then that's where they should parade. Not a quick half circuit, but round and round so that the punters can get a good look at how the horse is. This is especially so for the major races.

I've asked at WEG, why they can't walk the whole circuit, instead of all be segregated into small numbered groups, but have received no answer. If I want to have a good look at them, I have to walk all around the perimeter. Surely, the horses should come to the customer, not the other way around. It's no problem for me generally, but on Queen's Plate day for instance, they will be deep against the rails in the lower number area.

The idea last year to have A Bit O' Gold in the paddock was a good one and should be extended to cover as many of the old favourites as is possible. The racing here is so clinical by comparison and more effort needs to be put in to involve the audience.

Who are the trainers, who are the jockeys and generally, the poor ol' owner and stable staff never get a mention. Surely it would be beneficial if the audience watching, or reading the website (not a good one by the way), could see that Joe the Plumber owned a horse, or half of one and not just the elite of society, which many perceive it to be.

They have to get people involved in the atmosphere of it all. Look at the situation now when they have a big Stakes winner, or any winner really. They are so far away across the track that you can't 'feel' the atmosphere and the excitement of the owners, the tannoy is crap and you have to rely on a 'cold' big screen.

For general races, the winner comes in out of sight below, they have an ultra quick photo taken and they are away and on with the next race. They don't make any effort to interview the owners, capture the excitement and let people know that Joe the Plumber owned to horse and he's over the moon about having a winner. Excitement is contagious and that's what this sport needs to survive or expand.

I appreciate what the younger poster says and there is obviously some merit in it. I'm not sure whether Woodbine Live will attract new people, but you would have a better idea than me. I would agree that Takeout concerns is a non event to many and people are not there to bet at Belmont or Hollywood Park.

Woodbine has a lot to offer, I just wonder whether there is the will and desire to do anything about it.

Nigel Griffiths.
At 8:33 AM, Anonymous said…

The arrival of slots has benefitted racing at Woodbine in one way that hasn't been mentioned - the dropping of parking and admission fees. This, plus the picnic area, has attracted more families with young children who come over for a look-see. These kids could become horse lovers and future fans.
At 9:56 AM, Anonymous said…

That is certainly one avenue to pursue Buckie.

Get the youngsters there, let them see real racehorses close up, meet a real jockey and talk to a real trainer, it all leaves a good impression.

The family area is ideal, plenty of interaction, lots to stimulate interest, hopefully something that will be rewarded in future years.

Nigel Griffiths.
At 12:01 PM, Anonymous said…

It really is rather entertaining to read some of the "arguments" posted here and what's even more entertaining is the constant bashing that any "new" idea seems to take.

In the end we all want racing to succeed - whether it be for the love of the game as an athletic sport or asa way for some people (both horse people and gamblers) to make a living. Yet every time someone brings up an idea that doesn't suit the "other" type of person - it gets bashed.

Take Trakus for instance....the bashing it took here on this blog in the last few months has been incredible. I've been coming to the track for a long long time and I came with some "newbie" friends of mine who were watching a 14 horse field and couldn't figure out where their horse was when they wanted to. The looked at Trakus - found their horse - and followed the on camera shots from there. How can that be considered a negative if it helped a "newbie" and potentially brought in someone new to participate in the sport?
I as a veteran simply watched the regular race coverage that has always been there and didn't pay any attention to the floating chicklets. It didn't impact my view of the race what so ever! (And for curiousity sake I grabbed an image of a race I had at home from a couple of years ago when there was no chicklets - and the size and framing of the wider and tighter shots was exactly the same as with trakus. Seems to me they simply filled in all the empty space at the bottom of the screen with the chicklets).

Either way - this forum is a great place to "argue" your points, but for crying out loud - we all want to see the game succeed so how is bashing someone's idea just because it doesn't suit your personal needs (and others like you) going to solve anything?

We should be embracing any and all ideas to help this sport move along and if a track like Woodbine is trying new things - I say all the power to them - at least they are trying and not simply maintaining the stagnant status quo.

You can argue takeouts all you want but if you compare Woodbine's to most other tracks across North America - there isn't a whole whole lot of difference so it's not just Woodbine. (And don't forget - the CPMA regulates a lot of this stuff in Canada so their involvement has to be taken into consideration).

I applaud any and all ideas Woodinbe or anyone has to keep this great sport moving...whether it be Woodbine Live & trakus for the newbies, lower takeouts for the veteran gamblers or hell - midget wrestling in the grandstand between races - whatever - if it brings the faces in - let's have it!
At 1:34 PM, Anonymous said…

You can argue takeouts all you want but if you compare Woodbine's to most other tracks across North America - there isn't a whole whole lot of difference so it's not just Woodbine. (And don't forget - the CPMA regulates a lot of this stuff in Canada so their involvement has to be taken into consideration).
************************************
I already said it isn't just Woodbine's fault for the ridiculously high takeouts in horse racing.
Racing apologists want to forget all about it. Well, that is the reason why online poker has attracted the young folks and not horse racing. It is also why racing has been dying, relatively speaking, for years. Even if people aren't cognizant about it, they get hit with it big time in the end.
Racing officials have no right to whine about how hard it is to attract new customers. Trakus is an innovation, so what? It doesn't do a thing to attract a gambler who is willing to bet 200k to 1 million a year. And for newbies, it doesn't make that much of a difference.
The more I read racetrack apologists, the more I will stay away from the windows.
The racetracks should be competing with Betfair before they blow money on Trakus and Woodbine Live. The internet has made it difficult to keep mooches gambling on their rip off product.
And don't get me wrong. I want racing to succeed. I love handicapping horse races, and I used to like betting against the public in order to try to make some money while having fun.
I have always made my own speed numbers, but since Beyers and Equibase have put similar type numbers in the forms and programs, any edge I had(which wasn't great to begin with) has been eliminated at an average 20% takeout.
Not too mention that the weekend sucker money has now gone to the slots more or less. Now it is professional handicappers and insiders versus professional handicappers and insiders.
I woke up, and so has a lot of others I know.

I hope WEG and other track owners are reading this and taking it seriously.

In the meantime, I'll pursue Betfair.
At 4:21 PM, Anonymous said…

Woodbine Live is atleast a decade away..

Horse racing will be dead and buried by then. It is already being propped up by slots and it's only a matter of time until the government takes that away. Why they continue to prop up an industry that has done nothing to help it's own cause just astounds me.

it's only a matter of time until the government of the day wakes up to this.